Forum Topic

Computerized DAMA, has any Filipino made one?

  • MachoPolice Send Message View User Items on July 20, 2014 01:43 AM

    Mas challenging ang chess go for it.
  • ram2010

    Tama sir ram2010 kasi isa akong tao na marunong magchess. Kung gusto mo pati GAMES OF THE GENERALS dahil ito ang tunay na gawang larong board ng Pilipino!
  • Sa GG, in the initial phase sa game, hirap ang computer, well kahit naman tao, hirap din kasi hindi pa nila alam ang piece type at a particular location. Once magkakaroon ang challenges makikita na kung sino ang manalo o matalo o ma draw, mas lamang ang memory ng computer, pag well programmed ang computer mahihirapan talaga ang tao nito. Computer can later store the type, rank/strength and current location of a piece. For example a certain piece of player A challenges a certain piece of player B, where player B is a computer, kapagka ma talo ang computer, at yong computer ay gumamit ng piece with captain rank, the computer can now track the minimum rank of that piece that beat it. The computer will assign a rank between major and up of that piece, added to that the computer knew the location of that piece too. Everytime na e move yon ng player A, computer knows that is a piece with a rank of major and above, with this knowledge the computer will attempt to challenge it with Lt. colonel or above rank, that is a rank higher than a major that beat the computer\'s captain during one of those challenges in a certain square which the computer can even track by looking its move history. GG is mostly dominated by memory ability.

    I am discouraged to continue creating such GG computer, I started but did not finish it.

    Maraming board game, makruk in Thailand is one popular board game in this country. Try shogi 9x9 very popular in Japan.

    Mas OK sa chess marami na ring resources. Strength enhancement techniques marami ka ring mababasa.
  • ram2010

    May nasabi sa akin na ganito kung gaano kahirap ung computer. Learning artificial intelligence ung sinabi mo. Ang chess ang dami na nitong gumawa. Malalakas na chess program ang ginawa nila malakas pa sa chessmaster. Hanapin mo ung deep fritz at deep shredder maganda ung mga un. Kung gusto mo ng mas malakas deep rybka saka houdini.

    Kaya ayaw ko ng chess uulitin ko marami na gumawa.

    Ung nagtanong dito tungkol sa dama wala siyang nakitang pilipino na gumawa ng larong dama sa video games. May nakita ako pilipinong nagprogram ng games of the generals ngunit hindi ganoon kaganda. Ito ang mas naiisipan kong gawin at pasikatin hangang sa ibang bansa.

    Ang Games Of The Generals alam mo laruin. Bago ka maglaro pwede mong ilagay ang mga piraso sa kung saan saang parisukat basta wag kang lalagpas ng apat na row. 3 row ang maaari mong gamitin sa simula kaya paano malalaman ng computer na un lagi ang tira mo. Mas pakiramdaman ang larong ito kaysa sa chess. Kayang kaya mong lituhin ung kalaban mo dito kahit sabihin mong malakas na computer kalaban mo. Kung ung sa chess kahit hindi ako 1300 ang rating pero nagagawa kong talunin ung 1300 - 1400 ang rating kahit maraming beses ako natatalo bago ko matalo. Natural sa laro lalagyan mo ng iba ibang hirap hangang masanay ka sa ganoong kahirap para matalo mo. Sa chess kung nasa 1200 ka tapos ipalalaban ko sa iyo computer na 2000 + rating hindi mo un matatalo ganoon din sa Games Of The Generals. Natural ikaw na naglalaro kailangan gamitin mo utak mo kung paano mo sila tatalunin.

    Kailangan ko magaral pa ng husto ng programing at pag guhit para mas mapaganda ako ang Games Of The Generals at tulad ng tanong dito sa forum gagawa ako ng dama tapos lalagyan ko ng mga totoong pilipino sa laro.
  • May nasabi sa akin na ganito kung gaano kahirap ung computer. Learning artificial intelligence ung sinabi mo. Ang chess ang dami na nitong gumawa. Malalakas na chess program ang ginawa nila malakas pa sa chessmaster. Hanapin mo ung deep fritz at deep shredder maganda ung mga un. Kung gusto mo ng mas malakas deep rybka saka houdini.

    Alam ko ang mga chess engines. Kaya dito may challenge at saka popular ito na laro.

    Ung nagtanong dito tungkol sa dama wala siyang nakitang pilipino na gumawa ng larong dama sa video games. May nakita ako pilipinong nagprogram ng games of the generals ngunit hindi ganoon kaganda. Ito ang mas naiisipan kong gawin at pasikatin hangang sa ibang bansa.

    Anong program ang sinasabi mo, can you give the link?

    Ang Games Of The Generals alam mo laruin.

    Alam kong maglaro ng GG.

    kaya paano malalaman ng computer na un lagi ang tira mo

    Hindi yan malalaman ng computer, malalaman lang yan ng computer pag mag kakaroon na ng challenges with a result win/lose/draw. Ganyan din ang human. The advantage of computer is the memory, pweding e store yan sa computer, all challenges that happened in all squares, the piece involve, and the computer will be able to determine an approximate piece rank of the pieces depending on the result of those challenges. If you win on that challenge, computer can track that piece whenever it will go as the game progresses, not only for one piece but for all pieces that involve challenges kaya hindi malilito ang computer dito.

    Mas pakiramdaman ang larong ito kaysa sa chess.

    Ang GG close piece ang sa chess ay open piece. So sa GG gagawa ka ng mga fail-minor damage trial and error stragegy, para ma determine mo ang piece rank/strength ng opponent.

    Kayang kaya mong lituhin ung kalaban mo dito kahit sabihin mong malakas na computer kalaban mo.

    Hehehe, sorry I don\'t believe it. Sa human lang nagkaroon ng lituhan.

    -- edited by ram2010 on Jul 23 2014, 12:21 PM
  • Hehehe, sorry I don\'t believe it. Sa human lang nagkaroon ng lituhan.


    Depende yan sa rating ng computer na iyong lalabanan. Pag gumawa ka ng program mula mahirap hangang madali may mapagpipilian ka. Ang mga GM sa chess may ginagawa silang tira na pang lito sa mga computer. Kahit anong galing ng computer pwede itong matalo ng tao.


    Ang GG close piece ang sa chess ay open piece. So sa GG gagawa ka ng mga fail-minor damage trial and error stragegy, para ma determine mo ang piece rank/strength ng opponent.


    Dinagdagan mo ung sinabi ko. Kahit ganoon sinabi mo pakiramdaman ito nabasa ko ito sa manual ng Games Of The Generals. Kung mahina pakiramdam mo hindi mo masasabi kung anong piraso ung umaatake sa iyo. Gagawa ka ng ilang tama at mali para malaman mo kung anong piraso ang kanyang tinitira para labanan mo ung pirasong umaatake at ung ibang naka posisyon.

    Ito ang iyong hinahanap at ito ang aking sinasabi. Marami ito magpakasaya ka.
    <click here for link>

    Ang chess laro ng kalkulasyon ng tira mo at ng kalaban mo at ang Games Of The Generals larong psychological at pang sundalong taktika.
  • Depende yan sa rating ng computer na iyong lalabanan. Pag gumawa ka ng program mula mahirap hangang madali may mapagpipilian ka. Ang mga GM sa chess may ginagawa silang tira na pang lito sa mga computer. Kahit anong galing ng computer pwede itong matalo ng tao.

    Maybe a Super-GM (Carlsen) could pull out some draws or maybe even win a few games against the strongest engines. But in a match (series of games) I\'d bet on the engine (and even GMs would bet on the engine too). And GMs below 2700 would probably not stand a chance. This does not diminish in any way the skills and accomplishments of these masters. They are still mind-bogglingly above ordinary players.

    -- edited by jcmpix on Jul 24 2014, 10:54 AM
  • Chess is over now for human vs machine.

    Another interesting game is Arimaa. Simpling rules lang pero hirap pa ang computer sa ngayon. At may usd 10,000.0 programming challenge pa.

    In fact we are offering a prize of at least $10,000 USD (current prize may be more) until 2020 to the first person, company or organization who develops a program that can defeat three selected human players in an official Arimaa match. The match will consist of at least 3 games against each of the three players. The program must be able to run on a general-purpose, off-the-shelf computer and not require any specialized hardware.


    http://arimaa.com/arimaa/
    <click here for link>

    -- edited by ram2010 on Jul 24 2014, 02:18 PM
  • jcmpix

    That is your point again my point is a human can still beat a computer because the chess engine is made by human. If computer prgrammer chess players can find a way to make stronger chess engines chess players can find a way to beat these computers.


    ram2010

    Ano masasabi mo doon sa gumawa ng Games Of The Generals? Tiningnan mo?

    Nakasubok ka ng arimaa?
  • That is your point again my point is a human can still beat a computer because the chess engine is made by human. If computer prgrammer chess players can find a way to make stronger chess engines chess players can find a way to beat these computers.

    *Shrug* Believe what you want, but even titled players from FMs to GMs know that the strongest human players can\'t beat the strongest engines.
  • MachoPolice Send Message View User Items on July 24, 2014 03:29 PM
    [...]
    ram2010


    Ano masasabi mo doon sa gumawa ng Games Of The Generals? Tiningnan mo?

    It was not really a bad program.

    Nakasubok ka ng arimaa?

    I tried arimaa sa Ipad, app name is \"Arimaa Trainer\". Learning pa lang ng rules. Tapos wala na, wala pang time.
  • jcmpix

    Its a mind game and yes I will believe what I want nothing to argue and of conversation.


    ram2010

    Kumusta may ginawa ka na Dama?

    Ang lakas ni Deep Rybka kumpara kay Deep Fritz. Kung si Fritz ayaw mag patalo itong si Rybka dudurugin ka hangang matalo ka.


    Kung may ilan ilan programmer na magtutulungan para mapaganda ung Games Of The Generals mas gaganda un.
  • Words from other people about human beating the machine!

    InsaneChess

    I personally believe that no computer will ever be better than humans at chess. True, they may beat top players a lot, but even so, GMs don\'t always win. Not every player plays his best game every time he sits down at the board, and computers are not affected by things like psychology, sleep deprivation, emotions, or even real thought. All they do is cold calculation.
    Which is why computers are most dominant with tactical games. I believe a deep positional player could beat any computer with enough experience. Strategy, an integral part of chess, involves planning of long-term objectives. It has little to do with calculation, which makes humans the better strategic opponent, IMO.
    That\'s not to say a future Tal might not beat the computer, just that you have to find your opponent\'s weakness and make him suffer for it. In this case, the computer can only calculate. That is a limitation, and simultaneously its greatest strength and weakness.



    moonlight

    Humans will always be able to win in my opinion. It most definetly will not be easy but we can. Chess is a game where every action, attack or defense can be undone. There is no perfect chess defense or attack. Therefore there is always a chance of victory even if it seems impossible. We would have to get very good at chess. Some even devote their lives to it and perhaps take classes.
    BUT. It can be done.
    Also this depends on whether the games are timed or untimed. Timed games yes humans will come to the point where it is impossible to win; only because our minds can\'t function as fast as a computer...
    Untimed however is a totally different story. Computers have infinite patience. Chess players can leave go relax, eat coffee hang out and come back to be greeted by their computer. Still awaiting your move. This means we will have the upperhand. You can do one move a day. Sit and study to find the best possible move like in our tournaments here on chess.com. The score between humans and computers will always be tied.
    Computers > Humans ~ Timed Chess.
    Humans > Computers ~ Untimed Chess.
    I hope my answer proves adequate. I think it does. ;D


    With training, reading books, analysing each game and memorizing positions and games and playing like a machine without letting your emotions, attitude and any destractions around you go into your head you can beat a top computer chess engine.
  • MachoPolice Send Message View User Items on July 24, 2014 05:07 PM


    Kumusta may ginawa ka na Dama?

    Wala pa akong ginawa na dama. Lack of motivation.

    Ang lakas ni Deep Rybka kumpara kay Deep Fritz. Kung si Fritz ayaw mag patalo itong si Rybka dudurugin ka hangang matalo ka.

    Stockfish na ang malakas ngayon.

    Kung may ilan ilan programmer na magtutulungan para mapaganda ung Games Of The Generals mas gaganda un.

    Hirap ng buhay sa pinas :), most programmers natin ay wala ng time para mag gawa ng free softwares. Priority and kikita muna which is correct.
  • With training, reading books, analysing each game and memorizing positions and games and playing like a machine without letting your emotions, attitude and any destractions around you go into your head you can beat a top computer chess engine.

    I guess you know better than the GMs.
  • jcmpix

    toooooooooooooot wwwaaaaaaaaat?


    ram2010

    Kung gagawa kang dama paano mo ito program? Alam natin na ang laro parang art. Kahit pare pareho yang action game, adventure o RTS kaya natin gumawa ng sarili nating maiisip na laro. Paano mo program ang dama na gusto mo gawin?
  • If you are into Games of the Generals, there is a beta release for Android and iOS. Google \"kaliskis interactive\". The author(s) claim a single player feature with simple AI utilizing probability distribution. It may not be as much for some of you but I think it\'s on the right track to getting a playable AI, at least.
  • kaliskis interactive

    Is this connected to facebook? It is asking to log in with fb??? I have already given my apple account info, asking too much. Deleted for now.
  • MachoPolice Send Message View User Items on July 27, 2014 09:12 PM

    ram2010

    Kung gagawa kang dama paano mo ito program? Alam natin na ang laro parang art. Kahit pare pareho yang action game, adventure o RTS kaya natin gumawa ng sarili nating maiisip na laro. Paano mo program ang dama na gusto mo gawin?

    Simple lang ang ai ng dama or checker, sa evaluation mainly material counts, at promotion to dama or king.
    1. Mayron kang board and pieces representation, example ilang squares ang board, ilang color ang pieces, at type of pieces.
    At start position locate mo kung saan ang mga pieces within the board, at anong color ng piece ang nasa board square
    2. Gawa ka ng move generator, once na locate mo na ang pieces pwede kanang mag gawa ng listahan sa mga generated moves mo.
    Simple lang ang movements ng dama, except sa dama where mag gawa ka ng multiple jumps, with some conditions. Yong iba 1 square move diagonal lang.
    3. For ai part, gawa ka ng search function, say white to move, mag move ang ai ng piece sa board internally, meaning not in the real board. After first move, tatawagin nya ang evaluation function, ang gagawin ng evaluation function ay e count nya yong pieces nya at pieces ng opponent (basic material evaluation). Pag advantage update nya ang score nya, pag disadvantage, take back nya internally yong last move nya at hanap siya uli ng move at move na naman nya sa board internally ang bagong move, then call nya yong evaluation uli. Ganito ang ai, make move, the evaluate then takeback. Once makakita siya ng move with good evaluation ito yong e move nya sa real board.
    4. Evaluation function - pwede ka mag lagay dito ng knowledge, say piece position, pag centralized ang piece give a bonus score, pag na trapped ang piece bigyan mo siya ng penalty.
    5. Yong iba is move ordering, sa computer pag ma try niya ang good move sa first 3 attemps pa lang na mag search ng move, malakas ang ai. Maraming technique sa move ordering.
  • Tara maglaro tayong dama.
  • Is this connected to facebook? It is asking to log in with fb??? I have already given my apple account info, asking too much. Deleted for now.


    One of its drawbacks I suppose. I have not been able to successfully install the app on my Android device because it always terminates during the installation process.
  • O meron?